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Jen_in_MD
Star Contributor
MD
USA
1168 Posts |
 Posted - 02/17/2004 : 07:36:58 AM
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Hi. I'm still pretty new to MS'ing and I am hoping to get some feedback from those of you who have been doing this for a while. I know that it is an ICA violation to post information about which MS company has which specific clients on this site. Isn't it also a violation to discuss this information at all?
The reason I'm asking (and a little confused) is that I received an e-mail from a gold-certified shopper who obviously has more training than I do. This shopper asked me to send a private e-mail, stating which MS company shopped a certain client. I wrote back that I thought that was a violation and would not provide that information, but now I'm second-guessing myself. Was I correct in my response? Thanks!!
Jen |
MSPA Gold certified: #5bqyg3
Specializing in hotel, spa, and fine dining evaluations throughout MD, DC, and Northern VA |
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LeenieVA
Contributor
VA
USA
70 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 07:39:49 AM
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| Your response was completely correct. |
MSPA Gold Certified |
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Marita
Member
Alexandria, VA
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 07:45:41 AM
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It is. It probably says that you are not to divulge information to anyone. It doesn't really make a difference between competitors or gold shoppers. When I went to Gold training, I remember that one company rep said that they actually love it when they read posts such as "who shops XYZ?" and someone else chimes in with hints or even "yes, they are shopped." It's easier to sell a MS contract to a company that already has it and they can then undercut their competitors and get the contract when it is up for renewal. This hurts everyone, both MS companies and shoppers alike.
I read plenty of notes regarding restaurants that I would love to shop but I haven't been offered them yet. I have to do more applying or hope that I'm offered them by the companies that I already work for.
If it feels wrong, then it probably is. Don't divulge the proprietary info that you have.
Marita |
Gold Certified. Shopping Northern Virginia and Washington DC |
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Barbara N.CA
Star Contributor
San Francisco, CA
USA
2393 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 08:00:33 AM
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Jen,
What Leenie said. 
The Gold Shopper in question was trying to get you to violate your ICA. MSPA Gold and Silver shoppers have agreed to follow the same code of ethics (http://www.mysteryshop.org/ethics2.php), which states, in part:
• I agree to honor all confidentiality agreements; and
• I will not share information with others on which company shops which clients.
It does not matter, in principle, whether that violation occurs publicly or privately. That Gold Shopper should have known better do ask. You did the right thing. Don't second-guess.
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Barbara
MSPA Gold Shopper since June, 2003.
MSPA 2005 "Go To" Shopper |
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SandieS
Star Contributor
Long Island, NY
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 08:32:36 AM
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Jen, you absolutely did the right thing. Kudos to you for keeping your integrity.  |
MSPA Silver Certified
Shopping Suffolk and Nassau Counties on Long Island, New York |
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Ray Sola
Volition.com Staff
Prescott, AZ
USA
3042 Posts |
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Sandi In Mississippi
Star Contributor
MS
USA
1285 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2004 : 11:39:12 AM
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Jen - you handled this just right.
If you want to "hook someone up" with a specific company it is generally ok to ask that person for their contact info. Make certain that you know them to be a reliable shopper (hard to do when you are just starting out.) You can then offer to forward their address and info to your scheduler and let the scheduler know the person is interested in certain types of shops. Nine times out of ten the person inquiring won't want that.
It is also generally acceptable to respond that X company does do bank (or fast food or whatever) shops, provided that company has already posted on their website in plain view for non-registered shoppers that they schedule those type shops. If that info is only available to you by using your shopper id, assume that the company is not broadcasting that information. Attaching a client name to a MShopping company name is always a no-no. |
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ConnieS
Star Contributor
Matthews (near Charlotte), NC
USA
396 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2004 : 05:22:31 AM
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I just had a situation that happened yesterday. An acquaintance of mine wanted to go somewhere, but lamented that it was just too darn expensive. Well, I knew the place she wanted to go was shopped, so I called the MS company and told them that I knew someone who might would be interested in this shop, and asked permission to pass on the information to her. They thanked me for the referral and gave me specific contact information to give.
I doubt I would have done that if she had come straight out and asked me if I knew if anyone shopped the place. After all, I'll deny to anyone that I even know what MSing is. And, this particular company is one where I have a very established relationship, so I didn't feel awkward doing it. |
MSPA Gold Certification q4rzw0
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Melanie_fromNC
Valued Contributor
NC
USA
231 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2004 : 05:20:56 AM
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Yes, I've seen at least 3 MS companies that ask you to refer other shoppers to them.
Others companies strongly stipulate that you are not to divulge any information to anyone, anywhere. (anytime, etc. etc.)
I think it's important to read every one of those ICA's to determine what your MS company wants/expects. 
I've started including in my personal notes on each company I shop for which are liberal and which are extremely secretive and everything in between so I don't mess up and violate ICA's in these forums. It takes A LOT of work, many hours, days, weeks of searching and seeking to get good shops. I put too much into this to risk breaking a companys' trust. I may be new but I'm learning.... 
Just my  |
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Lynne
Valued Contributor
Des Moines, IA
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2004 : 12:30:25 PM
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I think it should be a "standard response" to offer to pass aong to the scheduler or company, the name of the individual that wants to shop "______________" if you know this information.
This would help the individual, and not in any whichway violate ANY ICA standard.
Personally,however, I just do not believe that 9 out of 10 people asking are
for MS Companies. It is possible, that a few are engaged in doing that, but the majority? NO WAY.
Now, I confess, I have E-mailed individuals, let them know exactly who I was, gave them personal info for investigating, and asked who shops such and such. I now see a clear cut way of handling the situation-tell an individual that I will let my scheduler/company know they are interested in shopping "__________" This helps the shopper, helps the company gain new shoppers, and keeps the unauthorized information from leaking anywhere.
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Lynne
Gold Certified h0c5ds Shopping suburban Des Moines, IOWA: Clive, Urbandale, West Des Moines, Johnston |
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Francine BC
Trainee
Vanderhoof, BC
Canada
8 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2004 : 7:23:24 PM
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I just tell someone who asks that the company is listed on Volition.com's list and if they are a serious shopper they would have applied to every company on the list.  |
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KrisM
Inactive
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2005 : 6:21:37 PM
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I wouldn't do it if I didn't know the person. You never know what their motive is.
But I have noticed that every MS company words their ICA differently. One states don't share the info with anyone, another says don't share the info with competitors.
We are encouraged to network, but I wouldn't network with a complete stranger via an email they sent you! |
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Jen_in_MD
Star Contributor
MD
USA
1168 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2005 : 10:34:57 AM
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Since I posted this a year ago, I think I've definitely learned more about the industry and have formed my own opinions on this issue...go figure  . I agree that we are encouraged to network, and I have actually found a few shoppers that I communicate with on a frequent basis. When there were shops in my area that I could not do, I would often pass the names of other shoppers on to my schedulers. Or, I would contact the scheduler to ask permission to pass on the information to another great shopper that I know in my area. But, even with people I know and trust, I would not tell them "who shops where". If an ICA asks not to share that information, my thought is that we shouldn't share it with anyone...friend or stranger. Just my .
(Edited to add: My response was written to a previous post where someone wrote that they would share information with people that they knew but not with strangers. That post was changed since the time I wrote this response.) |
MSPA Gold certified: #5bqyg3
Specializing in hotel, spa, and fine dining evaluations throughout MD, DC, and Northern VA |
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ChrisT
Star Contributor
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - 09/15/2005 : 9:55:07 PM
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It just goes to show the Gold certification is worth as much as the paper it's printed on.
The gold shopper obviously should know better yet they wanted you to violate ur ica's. Many shoppers here who aren't certified already know that basic info. |
ChrisT
Deliriously Happy Shopping Uncertifiable |
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.Kenthe Sub
Inactive
WI
USA
658 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 07:19:16 AM
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Like ChrisT wrote (and possibly a few others) it was totally inappropriate for a GOLD shopper, much less any shopper to attempt to get a new shopper to reveal such information. On surface it seems the motive was to take advantage of a new shopper as I do not think the MSPA would set itself up to do such a thing as have certified shoppers test other shoppers. However, I CAN see the MSPA have some process such as this for shoppers who have went the certification route, Gold and Silver.
I believe this new shopper should report this inquiry to the MSPA because they may have an interest in disciplining this Gold shopper. I can't think of a worse abuse of the ethical relationships between all of us as shoppers to do this, regardless of whether it is a new shopper or one who has done this for years.
I also compliment this new shopper for asking the question on this forum. I know the issue of ICA's can get pretty testy but this IS the place for questions.
I hope the original poster does report it and reports back on what MSPA's response was. If the GOLD shopper felt the need to try to entrap a new shopper I think we need to know that. |
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HJHarris
Valued Contributor
Mesa, AZ
USA
149 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2005 : 3:29:18 PM
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| You did the correct thing. Most agreements specify you cannot discuss the company you shop for nor where you shop for them. |
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.Kenthe Sub
Inactive
WI
USA
658 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 05:05:54 AM
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More thoughts on this topic---
1. I see companies, both on their website and in e-mails, either paying a small bonus for or asking that we perhaps recruit more shoppers for them. Assuming I had someone, friend or relative or both, who wanted to get into shopping but wanted some advice. I don't think it would be a violation of an ICA to share with them the company and the clients. If they are recruiting new shoppers by contacting their current base of shoppers it would seem unreasonable that we would not share details. It does little good to recruit/refer and only to have them discover that there are no shops for them in the area.
For example, once we took our son and DIL to a nice restaurant we were shopping. We told them we were shopping and did this to hopefully convince them to try it. They didn't but if they wanted to I would even help them sign up. Sometimes there are rotation problems and better to have a family member get a nice dinner out than someone I don't know.
2. Someone sends you an e-mail or calls you, wanting you to reveal clients associated with a shopper co. You don't know this person...no, I wouldn't share because I did my homework to find co.'s and they need to do theirs. I might mention Volition, I might not. If they are in my area I don't want competition! Besides, for all I know that person is with another shopper co. and that clearly would be wrong.
3. If I were at a convention or meeting of shoppers and some of us were sharing shopping stories and the discussion moved into who shops what for whom I would share, too. I would not just interject but I would participate. This is an exchange amongst professionals.
4. I don't doubt for a moment that shopper co. executives and managers know a good deal about each other's clients. Client A is with XYZ, then goes to another co. I'm sure both co.'s know this and Co. XYZ may have even provided some transitional types of materials. CPA firms are required to provide some transitional materials when a client switches firms. Again, there are professional exchanges of certain information.
5. I am going out on a limb here - I think all of this secrecy that many of us feel and believe (I notice the few ICA cops on Volition, those that lecture someone when they feel information posted may violate an ICA) that some of this is intended to keep us a very weak and unprofessional group. Sometimes shoppers post and refuse to mention a shopper co. and client; I believe it is wrong to link a client to a shopper co. but to mention either is not wrong. So if I say Co. XYZ has a fine dining client that is ok but if I write Co. XYZ has client ABC then it is wrong, at least on a public forum or the distant unknown person who contacted me.
I think we need to all feel comfortable with what we reveal but we also need to assert ourselves as professionals and do what I think the co.'s do and what takes place in the MSPA, etc. A loosely connected group of IC's is a weak group and we see that with issues of low fees, companies that rip off shoppers (G3, Intelliserv, etc.) but then we cannot reveal clients. I don't advocate ever contacting the client as some wanted to do in G3 but I also feel client names can be shared; I doubt for a minute that other co.'s were clueless about G3's clients and I'm sure they contacted these clients to take over the accounts.
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NatalieH
Contributor
USA
8291 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 05:46:59 AM
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quote:
I am going out on a limb here - I think all of this secrecy that many of us feel and believe (I notice the few ICA cops on Volition, those that lecture someone when they feel information posted may violate an ICA) that some of this is intended to keep us a very weak and unprofessional group.
I don't think that is far-fetched at all; in fact, I quite agree with you, and find most of this over-the-top secrecy to be unnecessary and ludicrous. After all, we are not guarding big corporate trade secrets or elements of national security. quote:
A loosely connected group of IC's is a weak group and we see that with issues of low fees, companies that rip off shoppers (G3, Intelliserv, etc.) but then we cannot reveal clients. I don't advocate ever contacting the client as some wanted to do in G3 but I also feel client names can be shared; I doubt for a minute that other co.'s were clueless about G3's clients and I'm sure they contacted these clients to take over the accounts.
Once again, I agree. |
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MrsKenna
Star Contributor
Oxnard, CA
USA
1641 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 07:31:39 AM
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I got an email from a shopper yesterday asking me to reveal who shops Olive Garden...you know who you are...shame on you!!!! |
CALIFORNIA- Oxnard, Camarillo, Ventura, Port Hueneme and neighboring cities |
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.Kenthe Sub
Inactive
WI
USA
658 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 09:34:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by NatalieH
I don't think that is far-fetched at all; in fact, I quite agree with you, and find most of this over-the-top secrecy to be unnecessary and ludicrous. After all, we are not guarding big corporate trade secrets or elements of national security.
Once again, I agree.
NatalieH,
The more I think about this topic the more I feel we, as shoppers, need to play on the same level playing field as the co.'s and schedulers. I used to get a bit worked up when the ICA cops would jump on someone and lecture them about revealing anything, even mention of a client without naming the co.! That's absurd, If I say I shopped Best Buy, Home Depot, etc. but don't associate the companies I have not violated any ICA. If I go into great detail about the shops then maybe I'm crossing the line but I don't think writing that the Best Buy shops I did were 2 department shops I think that's appropriate.
Again, as long as we live in this "fear" of violating an ICA we are weak. We know our forum is an open book but I still feel we need to exchange information of a bit more detail to get some power.
The forum for shopper co.'s and schedulers is closed; I'd sure like to have a feel for how much detail is given there - at the level that if we shared at that level we'd be accused of violating our ICA. |
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Roswitha
Star Contributor
Pinellas Park, FL
USA
445 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2005 : 10:24:52 AM
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Ken, I don't think you are going out on a limb when you state that it is in the companies best interest to keep us weak as a group. I am sure this same thought has crossed many a professional shoppers mind. I do not like nor subscribe to the attitude of us vs them but I am aware that the ICA's are primarily there to benefit/protect the company. That is how it is in our business right now and until the shoppers decide to form their own organization there are many ways unscrupleous companies will find ways to scam their shoppers. The current laws as we have seen will allow them to get away with it.
Having said that, I also want to make it clear that if I enter into a binding agreement then I know that I am obligated to honor this agreement. I firmly believe it is never ethical to discuss confidential company business and I really do not need an ICA or an MSPA to impress that fact upon me.
On the other hand, I have found it to be very beneficial to me as a shopper to be able to freely exchange myself with other professional shoppers. However, that does not extend to divulging priviledged information to an unknown shopper from volition or any other place.
Secrecy has it's place in this very competitive business but there is also a need for an exchange of professional insider information between professional shoppers.
If an ICA prevents us from acting in our own best interest as a shopper then a conflict of interest has been created and will remain a problem until solved.
My answer to the original question of whether to give out the requested information via e-mail to an unknown shopper is NO.
Sorry, I seem to have rambled on but bottomline is use your discretion, don't violate an ICA but certainly share information and leads in an appropriate way. |
Roswitha
MSPA Gold  Shopping sunny Florida Tampa, St. Petersburg, Clearwater, Largo ..... |
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Is it an ICA violation to give out company info via private e-mail?
